I don’t think the issue is redefining marriage for religion. The issue is simply whether counties in California can turn away same sex couples who would like a legal document to certify their marriage. There is no reason why this document should not be issued. This does not change the religious meaning of marriage. While many religions (Catholic and Mormons) may only recognize marriage between a man and a woman, other religions have taken a different path. The California Constitution protects marriage as a fundamental right. It also protects equality before the law as a fundamental right. The court argued very convincingly that discrimination based on sexual orientation is unconstitutional. 70 years ago California still banned interracial marriages. This was wrong and the court was right to overturn the ban. In 70 years nobody will understand that anybody could have denied the fundamental right to marriage to interracial couples or gay couples.

Your church is a beacon of allowing others freedom of speech. You know, if you discover church history that doesn’t coincide with the Mormon dogma-de jour, you’re encouraged to share it with your family and friends and neighbors, even bring it up in Gospel Doctrine. Better yet, verify your understanding with so-called apostates. You won’t have a single problem renewing your temple recommend.

This is one of my favorite parts from the statement on the linked page:

“No one on any side of the question should be vilified, intimidated, harassed or subject to erroneous information…”

To which part of that *doesn’t* the Mormon church’s tactics regarding Prop 8 (as well as their every day behavior) apply.

Vilifying homosexuals in every regard. Vilifying Mayor Gavin Newsom in the “Yes on Prop 8″ ads. Vilifying the lesbian grade school teacher whose class attended her wedding. The list goes on.

Intimidating church members to donate time and money. Intimidating donors to “No on Prop 8″ by threatening to expose them if they didn’t donate an equal amount to the “Yes on Prop 8″ side. The list goes on.

Harassing California residents with out-of-state phone calls from groups organized and managed by the Mormons. Harassing the children who they used in the “Yes on Prop 8″ by using clips of them without their parents consent or permission. This falls under the “erroneous information” category as well because the parents of some of those children were against Prop 8. Even after the parents asked to have clips including their children removed, they continued to use them. So much for protecting children.

Subjecting to erroneous information is my favorite. On what topic doesn’t the Mormon church lie? No on Prop 8 ads were full of lies and fear mongering. They lied about being forced to perform temple marriages for homosexual couples if Prop 8 passed. Oh, hell. There are so many ways the Mormon church lies or “subjects to erroneous information” on a daily basis, that I’m sure even your brainwashed mind can think of some.

C’mon, turn off that “the prophet has spoken so the thinking is done” switch in your brain for just five minutes and try that thinking for yourself thing. It might hurt at first, but you can do it.

Of course if you’re here in the role of an apologist, it won’t be long before you’re joining us as an apostate. Come on in, the water’s fine.

Once again, the Mormon church and its leaders are the epitome of hypocrisy. I know more than a few die-hard members who are truly decent people who are mortified and ashamed of their church leaders’ behavior with regards to Prop 8.

The Doctrine & Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, the Book of Mormon, and the Holy Bible, and their contents are binding upon the membership and the leadership of the Mormon Church as the official doctrine of the Mormon Church.

The membership and the leadership of the Mormon Church has apostatized from the eleventh and the twelfth articles of faith and the verses in Doctrine and Covenants, section 134 as previously mentioned.

But let’s look at what prior Mormon leaders have said about marriage, shall we?

“It is a fact worthy of note that the shortest lived nations of which we have record have been monogamic. Rome…was a monogamic nation and the numerous evils attending that system early laid the foundation for that ruin which eventually overtook her.”
George Q. Cannon in Journal of Discourses, v.13, page 202

“This law of monogamy, or the monogamic system, laid the foundation for prostitution and the evils and diseases of the most revolting nature and character under which modern Christendom groans,…”
Orson Pratt in Journal of Discourses, v.13, page 195

“Monogamy is the source of prostitution and whoredom”
Brigham Young in Journal of Discourses v.11 page 128

“…the one-wife system not only degenerates the human family, both physically and intellectually, but it is entirely incompatible with philosophical notions of immortality; it is a lure to temptation, and has always proved a curse to a people.”
John Taylor in Millennial Star, v.15, page 227

Oh, wait, suddenly they’re all pro-monogamy even if monogamy “degenerates the human family”???

The Mormons say whatever is politically expedient… and they’ve committed any alleged crimes against themselves to try and deflect the well-deserved criticism against their arrogant bigotry? The Mormons have a proven history of saying and doing *whatever* they want, including things like murdering over 150 men, women and children at Mountain Meadows.

Buying an election is real small potatoes for them. Don’t believe their lies – Mormonism is lying for their god. The god of this world who brags at being able to buy anything in this world… for money…

I don’t doubt that there are SOME people who genuinley were not trying to hurt gay people, but still supported Prop 8. However, no matter how nicely it is phrased it is disrimination and has a hateful effect. The only reason that you would need to ban one subset of people from using a particular legal phrasing is that you view thier legal (non-religious) union as inferior.

Let’s not kid ouselves though, I guarentee a number of people for Prop 8 were very hateful or at least held very discriminatory viewpoints. They were smart enough to avoid using hateful words with adults. However, even the official campaign web site for youth (iprotectmarriage.com, refred to homosexuality as naturally unhealthy and equated gay marriage to a man marrying his daughter).

However, there is no intolerance on my part as I believe you are fully entitled to your opinions. The supposedly beautiful part of America is that we can all disagree deeply on many issues and can be entitiled to our opinions, but also be entitled to equal treatment under the law. That has now been eliminated. This is why this will eventually be overturned in a court if nothing else, because it violated a fundamental American value of equal legal treatment.

Give all people equal legal treatment and then if an individual or church wants to deny their definition of marriage to gay people, black people, people of another faith, etc., they are perfectly entitled to do so.

Please do not equate a vote for a ban on gay marriage as “gay hate.” I would guarantee you that most people who voted for the ban have no problems with gays in general. Why is it so hard to believe that those who support the ban see marriage as an institution defined between a man and a woman and nothing more. As I pointed out in my article, those of you who see it as hate are the ones displaying intolerance, because you fail to see our side of the arguement.

If you care that much about “Yes on 8″‘s viewpoint, you can absolutley boycott Hollywood. They will probably contribute to our side of the issue again in the future. It would not be an immature or hostile response on your part. I guess it depends on how passionate you are about keeping same sex couples from getting married.

For me, I am deeply hurt and affected by Proposition 8. It is a personal attack on me. And it is “gay hate.” Now I do believe there are people who supported Proposition 8 with the best intentions in mind. The same way there were people who supported the segregation of races with the best intentions in mind. However, that does not prevent it from being discrimination and having really negative effects on real people. Because of that, I cannot possibly give my money, respect or recognition to those who supported it.

When you consider that there is a good chance this will appear on another ballot it becomes downright irresonsible of me to give money to people who will turn right back around and donate it to hurt me again. It would actually be illogical and unintellegent of me to not boycott them.

Also, soitgoes, agree.

Why do you think that marriage is an inherent right? The Constitution says nothing about the inalienable right of marriage. Marriage is established and defined by societies to promote those behaviors that will ensure the survival (and growth) of the society.

And as far as equal treatment under the law (Amendment 14), this is absolutely equal. Any person in this country can marry any other person of the opposite gender that they choose. Well, actually there are laws against intra-family marriage, and some other age related laws – I guess those trample on people’s rights too, don’t they?